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Estimating a second order transfer function for a over damped second order system.

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Gregory Woodhall
Gregory Woodhall on 22 Nov 2020
Commented: Mathieu NOE on 2 Dec 2020
I have been tasked with estimating a second order transfer function for a set of data given that has been given to me. The form of this transfer function is;
G(S) = (k * w^2) / (s^2 + 2Cws + w^2)
where k is the steady state gain, w is the undamped natural frequency and C is the dampening ratio.
I have previously used the tfest function to estimate a first order transfer function which seems to be correct, but I am unsure how to create the second order transfer function in the overdamped shape that I need.
Im not looking for the complete answer as I still want to solve the problem myself, but if anybody could suggest some points where I may be going wrong that would be appreciated.

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Mathieu NOE
Mathieu NOE on 23 Nov 2020
so If you were successfull on a first order system, what blocks you for a second order system ?
in my 2020b release the function for transfer estimate is : tfestimate
have you time domain data and already computed the complex transfer function Txy = tfestimate(X,Y) ?
all the best

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Answers (3)

Nagasai Bharat
Nagasai Bharat on 25 Nov 2020
In order to do an estimate of a second order transfer function the tfest function can be used with suitable arguments of np,nz (number of poles and zeros in the transfer funcition) along with the data you have.
Do give a clear look into the tfest documentation for more precise information.
PS: tfestimate is a function in the signal processing toolbox which does the similar tasks as tfest in the system identification toolbox


Gregory Woodhall
Gregory Woodhall on 28 Nov 2020
Thankyou for your reply,
I feel like I should of been clearer in my orignal question, I understand how to use the tfest function and have read through its documentation. The issue im having is that when I review the poles of the system using the pole() function, I receive the following values;
-0.4087 + 0.1584i
-0.4087 - 0.1584i
This as far as im aware, is incorrect for what I am trying to acheive, which is an overdamped system. This should produce the same value for the imaginary axis as seen in the image bellow.
What I am trying to find out is if there is any way to adjust my simulation to meet these requirements, as after reviewing different forums and the documentation I am still lost.
Mathieu NOE
Mathieu NOE on 29 Nov 2020
could you share your data and your code and explain why you expect to identify an overdamped system ?
Gregory Woodhall
Gregory Woodhall on 29 Nov 2020
I expect to identify an overdamped system because the question speceifically states before hand that the system is overdamped and that I am to create a simulation and compare the two, that is why I am asking if there is anyway to produce one.
The data given is the output of the actuator, the step input is 5 Amps and the data is taken across 200 seconds starting at 1, recorded in 1 second increments.

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Paul on 29 Nov 2020
I haven't yet tried this myself, but in the System Identification Toolbox idproc looks like it will allow you to specify a second order model with two real poles and procest is the function to estimate the model parameters
doc idproc
doc procest


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Mathieu NOE
Mathieu NOE on 30 Nov 2020
so this is the poor's man (no ID toolbox ) , frequency domain ID
it may help you
all the best
File1 = fopen('Set9_1.txt');
Set9_1 = fscanf(File1,'%f',200);
dt = 1;
T = 1:dt:200;
step_resp = Set9_1;
% Actuator_Exp = plot(T,step_resp,'r');
% convert to impulse response = time derivative of step response
imp_resp = [diff(step_resp)./dt; 0];
% frequency response function (impulse response = FIR filter)
Fs = 1/dt;
freq = logspace(-3,log10(Fs/3),100);
b = imp_resp';
a = [1 zeros(1,length(imp_resp)-1)];
[g,p] = dbode(b,a,dt,2*pi*freq);
p = p-p(1); % phase must start at zero
% from there we can compute all transfer function parameters
static_gain = g(1);
% at cut off frequency (fc) : transfer function phase is - 90°
fc = interp1(p,freq,-90); % fc = 0.0555 Hz
wc = 2*pi*fc;
% search for the Q factor : Q is the amplitude of the normalized (modulus = 1 at f = 0 Hz)
% transfer function at f = fc
mod_at_fc = interp1(freq,g,fc);
Q = mod_at_fc/(static_gain); % Q = 0.61
% let's compare the model frequency response function with the identified model
num = [0 0 static_gain];
den = [1/wc^2 1/(wc*Q) 1];
[g_id,p_id] = bode(num,den,2*pi*freq);
title('Sys TF');
ylabel('phase (°)')
xlabel('Frequency (Hz)')
axis([min(freq) max(freq) -360 0]);
% step response of identified model
sr_id = step(num,den,T);
title('Sys step response');




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